Ollie Garrod, recently set a new World Record for running 40 miles. It is a rarely run distance that he achieved at the Barry 40 mile track race on Sunday March 5th. His time of 3:45:07 equates toan average pace of 5 minutes 42 seconds a mile. Technically it is called a World Best Performance, but subject to the usual ratification, no one has run 40 miles on a track faster than Ollie Garrod! More remarkable was the fact this came only 3 weeks after he ran 50km in 2:51:56( Average of 5 minutes 32 secs a mile) the second fastest road 50km by a British Athlete. We spoke with him about both of these records and his training in general.

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Ollie Garrod’s running background

Adrian.

As background, for people reading, how did you get into running? How old were you when you started running, and when did you start to take it sseriously? 

Ollie G. I started aged 15. I attended a private school where Rugby was the only sport ever played by the boys. There was this dumb idea that if you couldn”t play Rugby, you were knaff at sport. I played, but I was never any good. Useless. I could run around a bit, so it was like, let’s run. Out of school, there were two local clubs, Epsom and Ewell’s Harriers were the local running club, and there was an excellent local tennis club. Joining the Harriers was a bit of a no-brainer and was the logical choice. 

  I started at age 15, and I wasn’t very good. Pretty average and nothing special at all. I was thrust into things almost immediately upon joining the club. In about a week or so, I was in my first race on the track. It was a 1500-metre race, and I came last. Not by much, but still last. That gave me a bit of an appetite, and from age 15 to 18, I was doing a lot on the track side of things. Running 1500 metres to 3k and 5k. I was training once or twice a week, getting better and fitter, but not necessarily excelling. I was enjoying it. 

Then I went to university at Exeter. I enjoyed the Uni club down there and finding like-minded people who just wanted to enjoy things and train pretty hard. 

The beauty of being down there in the West Country was the scenery. Devon and Dorset have some of the most brilliant cross-country courses and some of the most beautiful scenery. Track running took a back seat, and I started thinking,” Hang on, what about pushing more in the cross-country and on the roads?” Ultimately having an eye on the marathon. 

The BUCS marathon ( British Universities Championship ) was in London in my last year at Uni.

The training went well. I enjoyed getting out on the longer runs and learning to keep a decent pace.

The race went terribly and I ran around 2 hours 47 minutes. I was disappointed as I felt I should have been closer to 2:30.

 I had done all the miles and was fit, but I went into it with a knee injury. I was so stubborn that I thought, “I don’t care.” 

On the morning of the race, on the train to the start, I wasn’t able to straighten my leg without feeling absolute agony. I remember thinking, “You have done all the training. You are doing it.” 

I wouldn’t say it was a pleasant experience, but I loved the whole race atmosphere and wasn’t put off the marathon as an event.

My post-university focus was more on the events that would give me maybe a little bit of a target. I suppose I was looking for events without the large field of London, but with a bit of a buzz that I could do quite well at. 

Races like the smaller regional marathons in Brighton that I knew were less competitive than the big-city events.

 That was when I was introduced to the idea of Ultras by Val Cesto. ( Val is an Argentinian living in Britain but has represented Argentina in international ultra events.) 

She was saying, you know you can do a 2:30 marathon and recover well. That will get you somewhere, but there is also the opportunity to go further. Maybe I would be able to represent my country and do other things. 

A race in China was looking for foreign athletes of a certain standard to travel and compete to give their race a higher profile and were prepared to pay athletes to get there. Would I like the idea of coming to China for a `race? A 50k race later this year? 

 I had no idea about paid trips to China, and running five miles further than I had ever raced before, didn’t seem too onerous. Plus, I was gettingfree travel and accommodation in China.  

That’s how I got into ultras. When I went to China, there were a few other Brits like Rob Turner travelling there too. I ended up rooming with Rob and suddenly became aware of this new world out there which was a little bit below the radar. 

Adrian.

Fast forward a few years, and you have become a very competent ultra-runner

Goodwood 50km in 2:51:56

Looking first at your recent 50K that you ran a few weeks ago at Goodwood.

Your progress has been good at 50K. In 2018 at the 50k you ran in China, you ran 3:17:13. The following year, 3:09 at Gloucester 50km and a year later, just before the covid lockdown, you are back at Gloucester dipping under 3 hours with 2:57:58.

Post 1st covid lockdown in Ireland at the Donadea 50k, you improve again to 2:54:29, and now you are running an astounding 2:51: to go 2nd on the GB all-time road rankings behind Dan Nash’s 2:49. Apart from Dan, only Don Ritchie and Jeoff Norman have faster 50km times than you, both set on the track

How do you see your progression? Has it been a logical one? Has something or anything magical happened, or is it just an accumulation and adaptation of a few different things?  

Ollie. I think it’s a combination of a few different things. Every time you run a marathon or beyond, you learn more about what your body can and can’t do.

In anything less than a marathon, I think you go into pain zones, but you’re never there for that long. I think beyond that, knowing that you are going to go into the red zone, but can then walk out of it, and it’s not game over necessarily. Having the mental fortitude to think, “Yes, I am hurting here, but in a moment, with an extra Gel down me, I will be okay. 

 When you start looking at ultras, you are given this idea of the peaks and troughs in a race by other people. You never realize, until you have been there a few times, that you know you can come back again. From that angle, if I go into the red zone, there is a good chance that I will come out of it again. I also think part of it is becoming more of a student of the sport and being more respectful with nutrition and pacing. Until four or five years ago, I was guilty in many races of getting sucked into going too fast. The idea of starting out at a 5:30 mile pace, and if things were going well, I would run some 5:10 miles to get ahead of the game and have some time in the bank. Of course it’s not ahead of the game at all. You’re doing yourself some damage, increasing the pace, but my mentality was all right, you’ve banked a bit of time here, if the wheels come off, you have some time in the bank.

 Then on the nutrition side, I realised that my body needs a lot more than I thought. The 50k at Goodwood is a good example.

 When I ran my first 50km in three hours and nine minutes, I took nothing on board at all. I had a bit of water. In my next two 50km races, I had one or two gels as well. 

Even in the 2:54 at Donadea in Ireland, I only had two or three gels during the race.

 Fast forward to four weeks ago, and I took down five gels in all plus water which is a lot for me. It’s just way more than I have in training or previous races. I also changed things by going for slightly more carbs and heavy ones, rather than more watery ones. Being a bit clever around that I suppose. Knowing what I can handle and what the body needs to have on board. I think that’s partly having input via the team Hour Seven set up too. 

I think through experience, you learn what your body can handle. Also, training the gut, as it gets much better at absorbing nutrition on the run. 

On my training runs, I am still guilty of under fuelling, but I’m doing enough competitive races now and enough over the last few years to know that the body can handle it. I am lucky in that sense.

  Racing longer at 100k, has given me more knowledge and self-confidence. Longer races have made me stronger mentally at 50km.

Adrian.

 Did you have an eye on a particular time going into the Goodwood 50km?

 The time and target of the English record were secondary. It was more about getting a 50km time which might put me in the reckoning for GB selections for the next 50K World or European Championships.

  The 50-km team was selected, mainly from fast marathoners, some of whom hadn’t run a 50km before.

I can understand, as in the end, the marathon runners all stepped up and ran well at the championships!

I know several of them, and they are great guys.

I just wanted to show that a more experienced runner with a 50k /100k background, with possibly more respect for the distance, was still capable of a fast 50k, even though my marathon time was slower.

My PB last year, of 2:55 or 2:56 is good. It’s not world-class, but it’s a good European class. Part of me was wanting to prove to people that I could run 50 km as fast, if not faster than someone with a faster marathon time.

 I could potentially run a sub-2.20 marathon, but I wouldn’t focus on it. The guys who went out to the championships are high-quality marathoners, and most did run faster 50-kilometre times than me.

I just wanted to prove the point that you can be a fantastic marathoner, but you may well not necessarily, right now, be a brilliant 50K runner. I hope running 2:51 showed that. 

At the end of the day, we are developing a good squad of 50km runners, all pushing each other, but I hope I have put myself in a good place for any future 50 km selections. Making teams is a big focus of mine now.

Adrian. You have certainly put down a good marker,

World record for 40 miles at the Barry 40.

Adrian. You have an English road record and a new 50km PB.

Let’s look at the Barry 40-mile race, where you set a World record. Knowing you can run close to 2:50 for 50km must have given you confidence going into Barry.

Ollie. Yes.

Adrian.

 We’ll come on to this later as a supplemental question. 

After a hard 50km, most people would take some downtime before building up to their next effort. You love to race regularly, and in the three weeks between the 50km and the Barry 40, your other competitive outings on four successive weekends look like this. 

Sat Feb 11th Nonsuch Park Run 16:20

Sun Feb 12th Goodwood 50k 2:51:26 

Sat Feb18th Nonesuch Park Run 15:37

Sun Feb 19th Run London 10km 31:32

Sat Feb 25th English National XC 12.5 km 95th!

Sun Feb 26th. Brighton Half-Marathon 68:01

Sat March 4th Mole Valley Park run 17:07

Sun 5th March Barry 40 Mile 3:45:?? World Record

Not exactly a textbook build-up on the face of it.

Ollie. No. It’s not the usual textbook approach, but I am one of those people that loves racing, and I do tend to recover quickly. Following the 50k, I got in a couple of park runs, with a 10km and a Half-marathon in between.

Adrian.

Anyway, you are on the start line of the Barry 40 and targeting going comfortably under 4 hours. You have won the race three times now, which is a rare feat in itself. 

Tell us what you think about the race and its history and how your race evolved for you this year.

Ollie. 

40 miles is a weird distance, and the Barry 40 is a wonderfully low-key event with a rich history. Many of Britain’s top ultra runners of the last 40 years having run there at some point. 

 It’s within the niche area of road and track ultras, but one of those iconic ones, I think, isn’t it? There’s nothing quite like it in terms of its low profile, with about 30 runners running around a track, watched by a handful of officials and supporters. If you turned up, you’d think people were having a jog around a track. You wouldn’t get it at all. It’s a pretty fun race to run, and I love that. Mick (Mick McGeogh, the race organiser.) does a brilliant job organizing it. 

You look at the list of winners to see why it has this reputation. That’s why I went down the first time. I thought, “let’s get amongst these big names” I also needed to get the trophy back from last year! You get a huge shield for winning, and I didn’t know how to post that down there. It will be easier to take it down, so I’ve really got to go down again. Now I have to be there, I might as well have another crack at getting under 4 hours or faster, having just missed 4 hours the last two times I ran it.

I only started thinking about the time, and maybe the target of the world record, about a week before the race. The week beforehand, Mick released the programme with a listing of the top 20 performances over 40 miles, starting with Don Ritchie’s 3:48:35. I was sitting in, I think, 17th place with my 4:00:53.

I looked at this and started thinking, hey, having done a 2:51 50km, maybe there is something a bit more I can do here than go for sub 4 hours. I know my fitness is in a good place, and I seem to have recovered fine from the 50km. 

How much do I want to risk it and go for broke. I thought, having won it twice already, winning the race wasn’t going to mean as much as it had done previously. It would have been nice to win, but not that important. It was way more, “let’s just see what time I could achieve.” I had looked at that top line of Don Ritchie, and I thought 3:48 is a good time, but no one has challenged it. It’s lasted the test of time sure, but it’s not unachievable. It’s not completely out there. Looking at the 5:30 miles I did at the 50k and just slowing down to 5:40 or 5:42 a mile, maybe you can. You can be close to it. All that is in my head, and I am thinking,” How often do you have a chance to have a c free hit at a world record?”

There is no real outside pressure. It’s all from within me, and it will be doable. Out of this completely outlandish and crazy idea, I am thinking, “Let’s give this a blast.” 

So I told everyone I was going for the record. That included the owner of the little B and B was staying in. Being open and upfront was also part of my process to convince myself that this wasn’t such a crazy thing to be doing. It could happen if the stars aligned on the day.

On race day, It was the first time in Barry that I had someone support me. Previously, I had just put some Gels on the feed table and grabbed water as I go. Naomi, my girlfriend, came down and did an awesome job supporting me on a cold day. From that angle, I knew I could be more sensible with nutrition and picking up things the whole race. 

The last three times I ran it, I just winged my nutrition taking on one gel last year. I bonked at about 37 miles and had a blackout. I lost it a bit but came back out again and managed to finish. This is the first time I had a complete plan. I had bottles made up. Naomi was giving me my bottles and gels. You could say I had a proper strategy. 

After the first three or four miles, it was clear that no one was going to come with me.  

I had told everyone on the start line, “I’m going to go for this.” They were like, okay,! I got to 10 miles in 55:41 and half-marathon in 73:02, so bang on, where I was supposed to be.

Marathon came up in 2:25:57, and I was maintaining my pace well.

50km came in 2:53:16, only two minutes slower than my Goodwood 50.

Then I started to believe I could hang on. I was feeling good here, feeling strong. 

Then the body starts to shake a little and think, wow! At that point, Mick, on the commentary, started to get a little excited. Early in the race, he was reading my splits without any comment. Then I heard him confirm, “Ollie is moving faster at this stage than anyone else has gone at 40 miles in history.”

 I think he then started saying on the commentary, “Maybe we have got a new record happening here. In my head, I was starting to think, “Oh this actually is exciting, but it’s equally a little bit daunting.” I started to do massive calculations in my head. Wondering how much do I have to play with here? Keep calm, as there is still an hour of running yet. Keep knocking off the laps, but equally, how much do I have to play with? 

It gave me that confidence to think of keep hitting the splits, and if the wheels do come off, there is still a little to play with.

 At that point, I was right on the edge. I took a couple more gels over the last 9 miles, more than I was planning to. I think over that period, I took on six gels and a couple of beta-gel blocks. So a heck of a lot compared to my usual minimalist routine. I think I aimed for and achieved about 110 grams of carbs an hour or something like that. So it’s pretty high for me. But I think over the last few miles, everything started to come into focus. I was thinking, “Do you know what? You’re going to do it?”

 Mentally, even though I was now in the pain cave, everyone in the stands helping and watching was starting to get excited. Mick, on the commentary, was getting more excited as well. It all helped give me some energy to feed on and the belief of knowing what I can do. I even remembered I had read an article about Paula Radcliffe having this idea of counting backwards from 100 to keep your mind occupied. That helped take everything else out of my thoughts, just thinking 99, 98, 97, 96, and ignoring everything else going on. Ignoring the clock and just keeping that rhythm.

Details of the Barry 40

Details of the Barry 40 can be found at the Les Croupiers Running club website

 It helped me stay in the moment rather than getting carried away with the idea that I might break a world record. That helped me get through that spell, almost ignoring the pain and the effort. Then I realised I had miscounted how many laps I had to go!

With a mile and a half to go, I thought I only had five laps left. Suddenly, I thought, “NO, I have got six, which was a crushing blow momentarily. Thankfully, I reminded myself that I just needed to finish now. I thought, briefly, that I was going to go maybe 3:43 or 3:44 at one point. 

To finish with 3:45:07, over three minutes inside the old record, was still very pleasing.

Adrian. Thanks for sharing that. I felt I could hear Mick’s voice on the microphone and was back at Barry, watching you run around that track!

 Looking ahead, in less than four weeks, you are running for England in the Anglo Celtic plate 100K in Northern Ireland. 

Ollie. That’s right.

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Adrian, Are you rash enough to make any predictions yet?

 Or are you keeping it under the radar until the night before when you will tell everyone, or like Barry, tell everyone on the start line what you will aim for on the day? 

Ollie. I feel I am capable of a big PB. (Ollie’s PB is 6:46:50 from Perth last April. I’m not going to be rushing off too fast. I won’t be going out to try and break Steve Way’s British Road record of 6:19 for this one. 

I haven’t even checked out the details of the Craigavon course yet.

Adrian. It’s a 5k loop around a park, and it is flat. The course where Steve Way set his 6:19 was at Gravesend Cycle Park. I was there with the Scottish team, and that course was only around 2km and not flat. With the multiple loops there was quite an accumulation of climb over the 100km.

 Ollie. I think that 6.19 is a very, very good time as well. Despite my times at 50km and 40 miles this year, 100km is a different world that needs a little respect. You could be running maybe an extra two and a half to three hours more. There is also the team element and I don’t want to run the risk of blowing up, and spoiling the team’s chances.

 Adrian.

 Looking at overall training and racing, I spoke to Nikki Johnson last week after he set the Scottish 50k road record in Germany. 

You are Kindred spirits because you both race frequently and recover very quickly, both physically and mentally.

Many runners following a frequent race schedule would get injured, burnt out, or both. What’s your secret.

Ollie

 I find running races as regularly as I do need to keep myself up for it. I certainly do know runners who do burn themselves out. It is often more of a mental burnout than anything else. If you go into each race with the mindset of, this is what I want out of this race, without blindly running hard. This is the effort I want to put into this race. Or I just want to have a hard effort, but run not flat out. You can use races as good sessions.

Adrian. You have run hundreds of Park Runs and other short races. How do you justify putting all of them into your schedule?

Ollie. I treat most of them not as races but as sessions that help bring the best out of myself. If your running with other people in a club or group session, you tend to run a bit faster, and many of the races I run help me run a little harder without going flat out.

I can structure a session around a race too, especially a Park run. For me, racing regularly helps the mental side of things and keeps motivation high. I accept that won’t work for everyone.

 Sometimes, I have a session down on paper that I plan to do.It can look pretty grim. If I put the session into a race situation, it isn’t so bad, and I am working just as hard, if not a little bit harder.

Somehow it just makes it a little bit easier in my head, and I feed off that. I go to many races treating them as a hard training session and a way to get a decent bit of training.

  I treat them separately to races that I have as my main goals or A races. I think I have been slightly clever, or maybe I realise the races that will take more out of me. If I run a 10k or a half marathon, it won’t take very much out of me. I can knock them off, no worries. The marathon does need a little easy time afterwards.

I think some people are also almost a little bit scared of racing. I’m not scared of racing or the idea of not being the same athlete in every race.

Adrian. Finally, looking at the future beyond the Anglo Celtic Plate in April.Do you have any goals for this year and next year? 

Ollie. I made the GB team at 100km last year. Making teams is what I focus on just now. I don’t think there will be a 100km championship in 2023, but there will be a 50km World Championships. One of my main goals as long as GB send a team is to be selected to go to India for the World 50km at the end of the year.

That is a big target.

Adrian. Do you have a coach at the moment?

Ollie.

 No. I am self-coached. I am involved with Team hour 7, and they have people with experience I can bounce ideas off, like Robbie Britton. There are also have other people I can tap into for nutrition and physiological advice and use as a sounding board. I do like doing my own thing too, and mixing things up. I’m pretty stubborn, but I have come to a place where I know the volume of training and sessions that are helping me progress.

Adrian. Ollie thanks ever so much. For your time. Hopefully, we will catch up in Northern Ireland in a few weeks at the Anglo-Celtic Plate. 

Ollie. Thanks. Yes. It’s not long to go now.

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