Thoughts from Camille Herron on her recent 48 hour running record
On the weekend of March 24th -26th April 2023, Camille Herron set a new Womens world record for running 48 hours. She completed a distance of 435.336km/270.505 miles by completing 1088 laps of a 400m track at the Sri Chinmoy 48-hour race in Canberra, Australia.
I wrote a report with all the race stats for Athletics Weekly which you can read HERE
Prachar Stegerman, the race organiser in Canberra arranged for me to have a post race chat with Camille where she talks about how her race unfolded and a myriad of thoughts on nutrition, getting through low points, run ing longer and culminating in the phrase “I really don’t know what the heck just happened.”
Adrian,
So thank you so much for giving me your time again.
Firstly Many Many congratulations on behalf of the whole ultra running community in Great Britain. I’ve had so many messages from people saying effect, WOW!
I have been lucky enough to not only only read about but witness ground breaking performances from the likes of Don Richie, Yiannis Kouros, Eleanor Robinson and others over the years. What you’ve just achieved is way up there with all of them, I have to say.
Camille.
I always felt like I had it in me to go further and to do something really amazing the longer I go. And you know, to realize that it’s a dream come true for me. I think it goes to show you know that the further women go, there’s that possibility that we could potentially close the gap on the men’s world record.
I’ve already done the calculations. I think I now have closed the gap to 9.2%. So I’m pretty good about that.
Adrian.
I’m sure you’re planting the seeds in many other people as well as to what is possible, which is also to be admired.
Anyway, here we are, 24 hours after you set the record. I’m not going to ask you a stupid question like how are you feeling, which I am sure is relevant and well meaning and been asked by several people already. I’m going to phrase it slightly differently.
When we all do events like this, whether that is a 100 mile trail run or a 24 hour, we all get to a point where everything seems to be hurting. After running over 270 miles in 48 hours, Have you ever felt fatigue like this before?
Camille.
YES! You know, I tried to express as much information as I could from other Multi Day runners to know what I was going to experience going further than I ever had. I would actuallyI equate it to my first 24 hour world record and the first time I went through the night.
I mean, that’s kind of a scary thing to do for the first time and you don’t know where your body is going to go, or what you will be working through over night. I just went through two nights of that. So I felt like the 24 hour record race experience alone kind of prepared me for for this.
People probably want to know how I did it, and I equated it to how do you eat the elephant! You eat the elephant one bite at a time. We had different markers along the way. Different splits that we wanted to reach. Llittle goals along the way.
Every time I clicked one off, like a split or, reaching certain distances that really helped to inspire and motivate me. That’s how I ate the elephant.
Adrian
Thats a marvellous distraction technique. Paul Radcliffe was famous for counting backwards from 100 to keep her mind busy, you run around eating bits off the elephant.
Camille.
Yeah. I think it. Helps the time go by and helps ease the pain. Iwas in a tremendous amount of pain. I kind of prepared myself for knowing that , butit’s hard for me to run slow.
Everybody always says to go out slower in an ultra, but the thing is, I can’t start out slow because that’s like mechanically uncomfortable for me. So I had to work at what felt right for me, which I think I had maybe talked to you beforehand about running at about 65%. Maximum Heart rate. That was just like my easy run pace. I just had to wait for my body to get used to running slowly.
It took a day and a half for me to get to where I, I found that deep fatigue. And I guess its like catching a marble and a groove.
I eventually got into what felt like a good pace But it was getting slower. `It got to pace where I felt like I was in so much pain and fatigue, but I could hold on. So once I found that point where I could hold on, I just basically held on, and just kept clicking off different goals along the way.
Adrian.
You now you have the complete set of World Records from 50 miles, though 100k, 100 miles 24 hours, right up to 48 hours. I’m sure that none of them were easy. Out of those four, Which one was the hardest to break?
Camille. They were all hard in their own way. I would say the most challenges I’ve ever had though was my 24 hour record at Albi.
I had so many stomach issues during that race that it’s incredible that I was able to average the pace that I did with so much stop time.
I mean, I put it almost five miles beyond what I had already done, which was already a strong performance and, but just knowing knowing on the challenges that I went through, I think I have a whole lot of room to improve that record. I think that it’s going to be really interesting to keep working on that. I think you learn so much from every race experience. I mean, ultra running is about a lot of troubleshooting and problem solving. I’ve learned a whole lot from that race and I learned a whole lot from this 48 hour world record as well.
I’m a bit of a perfectionist. I want to keep working on improving all of my records. I feel like I have room to improve everything. I’m in the master’s category now too. So that’s an exciting thing that I’m still running really fast and really strong and I’m motivated.
Adrian.
The stats of this race have been well documented in articles already and I’m sure they’ll be digested ad infinitum going forward.
What hasn’t maybe been digested so much is how you fuelled yourself. Can you just talk us through how you fuelled the whole 48 hours and if you had any problems as you said, how you solved them as the problems cropped occurred?
Camille.
It was unbelievable. The first 18 hours of the race were really, really challenging. I think the hardest thing was the fact that we’re coming from our winter to the southern hemisphere. It was pretty warm and humid and I wasn’t fully acclimated to this conditions. I find that if you’re not fully acclimated, that your body could go a little bit haywire in terms of hydration.
I was trying to get enough water to dilute the gut. So it was a little bit like my experience in Albi, where my nutrition just wasn’t working for me.
I had to start trouble shooting a lot with my husband Connor. So we had to move away from what I was taking. I normally can start out okay with gels and water and sports drinks, but then I have to start adding other things to maintain a balance. I start adding in potatoes and fruits. Just kind of mixing up my drinks as I feel like I need to.
But everything’s stops working. Everything stops working.
I started having a lot of GI issues. I had diarrhea, and puking about 18 hours into the race. I was feeling lreally, really low with my energy and they tried to give me a burrito and I pucked that out. I just kept puking everything up. So I was at a point where I was really disconnecting.
So 18 hours into the race, knowing how much further I had to go and feeling so depleted and not finding an energy source that my body would keep in, I was about to quit. I I couldn’t figure out what I needed. I was at the point where I just couldn’t mentally wrap my head around trying to keep going. So I lay down and took a couple of sleeps. Just to settle things and hopefully allow my system to revive. Also allowing me to calm things down and let my brain refresh.
And then after my little sleep, we just started mentally setting new goals and rather than focusing on 48 hours, I started focusing on trying to qualify for the US 24 hour team. So I knew that I had to decide after100 miles. I knew I had to get to at least 130 miles to qualify for the US team so that was the next goal. Then it was just going and going further as I knew I had the qualifier for the US team. So I was re inspired and re invigorated.
Then going into day two we finally figured out what food I needed n I actually started, I normally have teff for breakfast, which is the Ethiopian grain. Once I started day two with my usual breakfast of Teff, a cup of coffee and a banana, it was like magic. I felt so good after I had my usual teff that we kept taking it all day.
Then I was sipping drinks in between taking my teff. I was sipping coconut water and Maurton sport drink.
My gut was great on day two. I had no gut issues with the new fuelling regime.
I was on day one I was adding mineral drops to my water.but it wasn’t I just wasn’t feeling good with the taste, So we switched to just plain water on day two.
So all I took all I took was teff and plain water, Maurton and coconut water. That’s it.
Adrian.
You mentioned you had the couple of longer stops. Looking at your your lap splits it is apparent where you had your bad patches and where you are going well,
You mentioned when I spoke to you before the race, you were planning some micro sleeps. Did they all go to plan or did they became more spontaneous as the race evolved and you had issues?
Did you just rest and have naps according to how you were feeling?
You can read my pre-race chat with Camille HERE
Camille.
Basically yes. It became kind of more spontaneous. I would say most of the sleep was during the night portions. There were a couple of stops during the daytime where my brain was getting a little bit fuzzy.and I just felt like and I mean, I feel like being on it doing track as I was finding with the extra distance there seemed more mental stress and focus. There were times that I just needed to lay down and close my eyes just to relieve the overall stress that I was feeling. So I just kind of did that when I felt like I needed to clear my head and refocus.
On the second night, it got much harder and I felt like I really needed to grasp on to the sleep and make the most of it. So I had a couple more micro sleeps on the second night. And then once I got the final sleep, it seemed to be like the boost that I needed to work through this last couple of hours. So sleep was good. I needed a little bit.
Adrian.
It’s a very rare person that can stay awake for 48 hours. It’s even harder to stay awake and then achieve peak performance.
if you hadn’t had those little micro sleeps. Do you think you would have been able to maintain the pace you did in the latter stages
Camille.
I think just just having that mental focus to be able to keep pushing myself the way I did. I think it it was a matter of you losing losing a little bit of time from sleep to gain a lot more time at the end and keep moving well
.I had read that that Jo (Jo Zakrzewski) didn’t take any real sleep breaks in her recent record run and she was moving a lot slower at the end of the race than I was. So I think that’s the difference is just be able to recharge your brained your body a little, to give it that extra boost to go that extra distance that I was able to go. So I think it made a big difference but I still think I have a lot to learn from this experience,
Going forward, I am hoping that I get the opportunity again.
A lot of a lot of things have to go right just set a world record and we hope that I have that opportunity again to try and apply what I learned here improve it even more.
Adrian
Moving on more to the mental and inner side of the race.
You had a very good fortune to have former world marathon champion Rob De Castella at the start of the race as guest starter.
There is a video of him at the start addressing the runners with a simple but profound statement. He said,
“It’s only through the difficult challenges in life that we really find out who we are This is an opportunity for us not just to develop our physical strength and our wellness, but also our spirit.”
Do you think you found out who you are in the last 48 hours?
Camille,
Oh yeah! I mean, I already knew that. Since my first time, I’m born for this.
But yeah, definitely having Rob at the starting line was incredible. I have him quoted on my, my coaching website to “train, train smarter, not harder.” So to see him in person was like, whoa seeing, it’s like seeing God or something.
So I felt I felt really blessed from the beginning and knowing, just being such a fan of him, I mean, it was a really cool experience.
Related to that, As you know, the Sri Chinmoy Marathon team organized the race and Sri Chinmoy’s and the whole Marathon team philosophy is centered on self transcendence and just being able to push your boundaries and fulfil your dreams at any level, whether you’redoing your first 5km, or you’re setting a world record
You talk a lot about your personal peak performance. Do you think its possible to package peak performance in little boxes and teach it to you or do you think there’s more than elements, that you learn by your own experience and intuition.
Camille.
Oh, yes , definitely. I mean, I’m a science person and have a background in research. I’m a very cerebral person at times that, has applied my science knowledge.
At the same time, I found what works for me and what doesn’t work for me. And you know things people teach or recommend dont work for everyone.
Take the carbon-plated shoes, for example, I, I find that this shoes might be okay for the shorter distances, but I definitely cannot wear carbon-plated shoes for the longer ultras. They just give me too much foot pain.I didn’t wear carbon-plated shoes for this race. I’m just more comfortable with a more flexible shoe when I’m running at slower paces.
And so,I found the things that work for me and what doesn’t work. I think it’s really important thing that we research these subjects, but I’m definitely my, my own bird.
Adrian
So you feel you can learn things from the sports science, but your own experience will enhance that as well.
Camille yes Definiltey
Adrian
You seem to have become a silent voice, and apowerful voice fif not empowering women, certainly encouraging women that they can do more. Despite the fact that times have moved on now to 2023 and more women are doing more amazing things. Do you feel this still a little divide and more can be done to encourage women to get out there and, and achieve their own little dreams?
AdrianOh, Definitely. I mean, I think about the evolution of the sport since I got into it versus now. And I even remember running at the 100k World Championship in 2015 and hearing chatter from the men around me who didnt know me as I was new to the sport. Nobody knew who I was. And I’m up there with some of the top men and I can hear the chatter around me. “Oh, she can’t keep this up”
. I mean, it was like digging me with a hot poker to hear that from the other men around me. And I said, “well, watch what say!, Hold my beer, hold my beer. I’m going to show you.
So yes, I think the women in our sport have really like commanded that respect and that attention from the media and the public because we are amazing. I think it’s really incredible. I mean, not just what I’m doing, but there’s so many other women in the sport. I mean, we just followed Jasmin at the Barclay Marathon. I’m so inspired by her. I mean, I feel I feel this energy or the synergy from the other women in the sport. And I think we can, continue to elevate each other. I think that’s a really powerful thing for our sport and for other women. And I think it really helps with the media that the public are really shining the spotlight on us.
And now I have sponsors that fully believe in me and what women can achieve.. I’m support by Loulou Lemon now. And they’re fully behind me helping me push my human limits.
So there’s more to come. For sure.
Adrian]
From what you’re saying, you haven’t been put off trying another 48 hour n that you’ve done one 48 hour race.
We spoke a little about the Sri Chinmoy 3100 event pre race, is that still on your radar after this experience?
Just a 3100 just seemed like another universal together. There is. And I can’t be challenged. Or is it something that you think will be challenged eventually from yourself? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I, I tell you one, one reason why I chose to do this race is because it is a street or my supported event. And so I just have lunch with them today and you know, hanging out talking with them and you know, they, they were in awe of my nutrition like how and because they, they do the much longer events and said they have to eat like more regular daily food versus me doing the shorter events where I can get by on, you know, like just gel and water is worth street. And so yeah, be able to take me able to come here and to meet them and you know, to take their brains and they definitely inspire me.
But I think I’m going to have to work by way of. One of the things like like the 48 is they’re waiting for you. You’ll know when the time is right. Yeah, yeah, I’m not quite there yet, but they, they see me as a speedster and and I mean, they’re, I’m in awe of them. And I mean, I’m sure they’re all. I mean, we’re just like we’re trying to learn from each other, you know, like how do I get so fast? How did they go so far? You know, so I, I think it’s, it’s super cool to be here though. I mean, I, I was, I could fill the energy on the side and just the love that they have for writing and I told him at lunch time. I was like, you guys are my people. Well, I’m sure a lot from from Susan obviously she’s had that 31 hundred experience and it’s a lot of information science wise and just experience wise to tap into on that’s when it finally comes around. Yeah, yeah, I think the course thing from because I was, I was really kicking Susan’s brain at lunch today and she said that when when you start talking with all the, the 31 hundred mile people, everybody has a different strategy in terms of nutrition. Yes, she says that there’s no, there’s no one right way that every individual has like a different strategy. And so she had to figure out her own strategy for her nutrition and and yeah, she’s talking about how she would just pile on the food and then and then just, you know, run all day and then just keep piling on this like she wasn’t, she wasn’t doing like and like a small bit. She was just piling on the food and then just running and drinking water. So I thought that was that that was really fascinating. Many, many, much, much expertise to tap into, but you’re right. Or publishing, but when the Mifin Scotland William Sitchell, you might have come across to the 31 hundred years ago and he’s from a similar back when to you, he ran for GB at both hundred K and 24 hours and so he’s not fast fast when he went to the 31 hundred, he thought he could run fast every day, get his miles done and then go to sleep, but didn’t quite walk by that yet. He got a bit humble us that a week, he sort of, I grew humble and realized I had to sort of just slow down a bit and relax into the race. Yeah, rather than eating it like a longer six day race, said had to be a new day was a challenge. Yeah, yeah, I talked to Susan about that because I wanted to know like the problems that she had to go with and she said she said that they and they recommend that you do it at least a 10 day race before you do the 31 hundred miles because a lot of the problems that you you’re going to encounter don’t happen until 10 days.
So I’m like a speedster right now, I can’t even wrap my head around 10 days quite yet, but you know, I’m going to just try to work my way up to that and just learn from each time I step up in distance and you know if there’s going to come that moment, we’re going to finally be able to be like, okay, I’m ready to do this.
Adrian,
One question I wanted to ask was about Connor your husband. I’m aware that this is an amazing team with Connor quietly in the background doing so much to help you reach the goals you set yourself, and he supports you your whole life as well as being there as the main helper in your races.
Camille, We were talking to the Sri Chinmoy team about this too
We’re getting ready to celebrate 22 years together. I’m 41 now and I met Connor when I was 19, after my freshman year of college.
I joke with him that we just couldn’t have imagined the journey that we have been on right now.
BREAK
But we know each other so well and he knows how to push my buttons. There are times during the race when he was trying to force things on me because my brain was getting kind of loopy and he wanted to make sure I was hydrating.
But sometimes, I just had I had to tell him to shut up. I was like saying, leave me alone.
He knew that I was okay because I was keeping up with my hydration. I was pretty much just in the zone and didn’t want to break my concentration. And so it felt like every time I came around, he kept saying something to me. I was so focused that I just needed to stay focused. He said he wasn’t saying it every lap, but he was, he really was. It kind of tested me at one point and I told him to shut up and that’s pretty rare, that I tell him that.
Adrian
He will probably counter that by saying there’s a bit of reverse psychology going on. He saw you were in the zone and focused, but he wanted to know that you were still there.
Camille.
Yeah. He probably ensured I was still mentally engaged.
It’s pretty it’s pretty intense like I will have to sit down and digest everything that we learned from the experience .I mean, I can’t even I still can’t wrap my head around how I went another day. I mean, just jdoing 24 hours is hard, but doing another day of that I can’t even. I don’t know what the heck just happened.
Sometimes that is tied up with the message of self-transcendence. You just you can’tanalyze it. You just feel it. and it’s just something you try to analyze but your head just can’t quite process it.
Camille. I can’t even I mean, I just I can’t even process how far I just ran. Its just ridiculous.
Adrian
Well, the record books don’t lie,. I’m not going to talk about the stats now but the stats are just awesome and they’ll be analyzed to kingdom come by many including myself. The business pass is ever I don’t see Yanis is in a league of his own out front. Well, I actually I think I passed because I was looking at the all time. I passed from the Yanis’s previous 40 and our performance is. I was only 120 meters or whatever way front and the Ukrainian guys. So I laughed because I had a couple of lot breaks at the end where I was chatting with the other runners. Well, that’s sort of where you’re talking about that tells me that there’s an unfinished business there and there’s there’s really. He had to learn 24 and 48 out as much as so can do it. I mean, he probably follows the. His first couple of 24 hours he bombed out wonderfully. But he learned how to he’s now learned how to race a 24 hour same with Yanis. He didn’t go well, but then he learned from that. Yeah, yeah.
33:14
Oh, man. I want to do the 100K. I still got a good 100km in me . I haven’t raised a a proper 100K since 2015. And I feel like I’m very long overdue for that. So whenever the next world championship is for 100K, I think I’m going to be focused on that and trying to post a sub seven hours. That might be my next big record challenge.
I will focus on the 24 hours later this year in Taiwan and if things work
I will focus on that sub seven hours.
Awesome. Okay, thanks. Have a good week.
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