Andy Davies talks about his recent 5th place at Comrades Marathon.

Andrew (Andy) Davies has been one of Britain’s most consistent endurance runners of the last ten years. Two Commonwealth Games Marathons for Wales. GB vests on the road, at Championship Marathons and 50km. GB and Welsh vests on the mountains and trail. He has a marathon best of 2:14:20, which at the time was the British Vet 40 record.

 

He placed 5th in the recent Comrades Marathon in South Africa. As usual, slightly under the radar and not being mentioned in any pre-race previews. He let his feet do the talking. I caught up with him to chat about his running and, despite his modesty, what was an exceptional Comrades race.

Marathon Beginnings.

AS. Your running career has been well documented, in many places. You’ve run cross country. You’ve run on the hills. You’re an international class marathon and 50km runner. You’ve run all sorts of things at a very high level. When did you start gravitating towards the marathon and longer things?

AD. Well, I went travelling years ago. As well as being a runner, I was playing football in the Welsh League. I went travelling, and I’ve always wanted to do a marathon. I thought, “Well, I’ll do one while I’m travelling” It was at only three weeks’ notice. I saw one in Christchurch in New Zealand when I was in the Blue Mountains outside Sydney.

 So I was doing loads of training there, just went for long runs and everything. So that was my first one. And yeah, I suppose once you do one, you get hooked. So, I’ve been doing at least one a year now, for the last 19 years. I want to keep that run going. So that’s how it all started.

 That first one. Because I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. I only had three weeks of training. I did it in two hours and 52 minutes, or I think it was. So I suppose after that, I was like, well, that’s not bad, considering I’ve only done three weeks of training. I’ll see what I can do with a bit of training. 

 AS. When did you realise you were getting good at the marathon?

AD. My next marathon was a year later, in 2007, I think. I ran Edinburgh. I did that and ran 2:37. I did a few 2:37s, slowly coming down to 2:34 and 2:27. Then 2: 25 and then slowly chipping at it, 2:16, 2:15, then now 2:14.

The influence of a coach

AS. So, you mentioned coaching or the lack of it. When did you start being coached by Steve Vernon?

AD. I asked him to coach me because, at the time, I wasn’t doing well. Our football team were getting worse, and I thought, I need to take this running up a little bit more seriously now. So it was about ten years, or eleven years ago. I knew him before that because my brother-in-law was the best man for him at his wedding. So they knew each other. So I knew him a long time ago, 20, 25 years ago.

 AS. When he was a good runner?

AD. Yes, he was a good runner. So I knew him quite well, and he was up for the challenge too.

AS. Well, he’s certainly done a lot of things right in the coaching world and has certainly made his mark.

NOTE: Steve Vernon had a very successful running career representing GB at Cross Country and Mountain Running. Formerly Coach to the New Balance team in Manchester, he is now “World Class Programme (WCP) Endurance Performance Manager” at UK Athletics.

A lot of people read blogs and listen to all these podcasts, trying to work out how to improve as runners. A lot of them haven’t got a coach. 

You’ve been un-coached, and then you’ve had a very high-level coach. What would you say is the big difference? What advice would you give to anyone who’s thinking whether they should have a coach?

 What’s the game changer from your point of view?

AD. Someone who knows what they’re talking about. That helps so much. 

I think one of the biggest things is giving you the confidence and belief that you can improve. If I didn’t have a coach, I’d have probably stayed around the 2:23 or 2:24 mark. With someone as a coach, knowing what they’re talking about, knowing the right training sessions, and also giving you the confidence and belief that you can do that as well. He’s always telling me something like, “You’re in 2:15 shape at the moment.” That’s often a big surprise to me.

Just having that confidence to know someone else has confidence in you. I think that’s quite a game-changer. I think another thing is having someone else with different eyes on everything. Before working with Steve, if I had a marathon coming up, I’d run loads of races leading up to it, not knowing any difference. Do you know what I mean?

Not doing the right things as well. So it’s all about the right race at the right time. But I wouldn’t have done that without a coach. I’d probably be doing fell races leading up to a marathon and going off the rails.

The seeds planted for going longer…and knowing your own body.

AS. From marathons, obviously, whose decision was it to have a go at an ultra? Was it something you wanted to do, or is this something that Steve recognised you had the capacity for?

AD. I suppose by then, I did my first 50k in 2017. I think it was at the world champs in Qatar. I just wanted to dip my toes, I suppose. I had run a lot of marathons by then, so at the time, I was like, “Oh I think I can go another five or six miles further”, I managed to get into the British team having run good marathon times. It was a nice little shot at getting into a British team and having another British vest. Yeah, so I suppose I was dipping my toes in it then as well. I was like, well, actually, this is all right. So that started it off there.

AS. Just while we’re mentioning the move to 50K. You mentioned there that you moved up from the marathon to 50K. But coincidentally, your marathon time seemed to improve at the same time. It’s almost like you dispelled a common myth that once you start going long, your marathon time will suffer, especially if you go to 100K or Comrades.

AD. Yes.

AS. We’ll get to Comrades in a minute, but you more or less confirmed that myth, which many people have always known, that going long doesn’t have to mean you sacrifice your speed.

AD. No, no, no! That’s one thing that Steve says, or said at the time, is like, you cannot sacrifice your speed. You still need to be fast. So we’ve always done that speed work. We’ve always kept an eye on the speed stuff as well. So I’m always doing speed sessions too. 

AS. Do you think the strength you got from doing that slightly extra mileage for the 50K helps you with your marathon improvement?

AD Yes. Absolutely. I was going to say that about the comrades.  I’ve been doing well because I’ve been doing 50Ks as my longest road events on the flat. When I was thinking of the Comrades, it was daunting thinking of going up to 86K. Alot of these top lads were coming from 100k races and 24-hour races. This was short for them. So it was a nice mix to know that all these lads are doing big mileage and mixing it up there as well.

 It was interesting to know that if I did want to run Comrades, I might have to run longer races. 

AS. Does Steve still coach you, by the way?

AD. No. Now he is working at UK Athletics he has stepped back somewhat from individual coaching to prevent any conflict of interest. So that was about a couple of years ago, but I still talk to him every three or four months. If I have a plan, he’ll just give me general advice on what I need to do leading up to that race. So, I kind of know myself. I know I was preaching before about getting a coach and everything, but now I’m self-coached, I think I’m a bit wiser and sensible now on what needs to be done to get there.

AS. Do you think you get to know your own body as well and how well it recovers from various sessions?

AD. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. One of the things that Steve has always said is that you do your next session when you’re ready, not when the schedule dictates. So sometimes I’m tempted. It’s like, yeah, I think I’m all right. But just taking that extra day, it doesn’t matter. Just take that extra day. Don’t worry about it. Yeah.

AS. Sounds like you’re a great advocate of the flexible training schedule.  Knowing and understanding, in a training block, what key sessions you have to do regularly, but being a little flexible with the timing.

AD. Definitely. Sometimes, after my long Sunday runs, like by Monday, I’m still knackered, and my next hard session is Wednesday. How am I supposed to do this? But yeah, come Wednesday, my body’s ready to go again. So yeah, it’s just a matter of knowing when to do the right training at the right time.

The seeds of Comrades.

AS. You’ve run several 50Ks, and you’ve run long mountain races as well, as shorter ultra trail races. When did the seed of wanting to go as long as Comrades start appearing on your radar, or within your subconscious, as it were?

AD. I think, yeah, I’ve been saying about this. I think it was Steve Way who had opened up the door to me knowing about this race when he finished third one year.  

NOTE: Steve Way Finished 3rd in Comrades in 2018  and is also the current British 100km “road” record holder with 6:19:20.

AD.  I was like, I fancy that one year perhaps. Then COVID hit. Then, I wanted to do an uphill run, because that’s where I think my strengths are. Then, since COVID, you had two years downhill. So I had to wait that extra year, which I think has worked out well, to be fair. So I just had to wait my time a bit.

AS. Yes. Steve Way’s got a lot to answer for, I think. You got to know Steve because you both ran the Commonwealth Games Marathon in Glasgow, in 2014. 

AD. Yes, that’s right. 

AS. Along with Ross Houston of Scotland, of course. I remember seeing this fabulous picture of you, Ross, and Steve Way sitting in the stadium watching the athletics a couple of days after your marathon, seemingly having a chat. I put my own imaginary caption on it, wondering if Steve is saying, “You ready for 100k yet, boys?”

  Ross did run a 100k, as you probably remember. You haven’t yet, but you’re getting close to that now. 

NOTE: Ross Houston ran 6:43:45 in winning the Anglo Celtic Plate 100km in Wales in 2015, and was in the same GB 50km team as Andy in 2016 at Qatar.

AS. So you’ve got the idea of Comrades, and it seems this year is the year. Over the last training block, building up to it, did anything change drastically in training from what you would normally have done for a 50K or a marathon?

AD. No, not really, if I have to be honest. The training was about the same. The only thing I did change, I had a word with Steve a couple of months ago, and he said what you could do just before, you know, in the couple of weeks leading up to it, is do a double day, double tempo day.  So, I’ve never done that before. So, it was like a 10-mile tempo in the morning and then 6 by 1 mile in the afternoon.

And, yeah, the times I wanted to do were quite scary. It’s like, I’m not sure if this is possible, but they were all right, actually. 

Yeah, so knowing I can do something like that in the future is useful. 

Before Comrades, I was feeling this could be quite daunting. I’m used to racing marathon and 50km on the roads but I’ve got to go twice as far as that. But yeah, I think running, double days without killing yourself too much by doing one long day like a 40 mile or whatever, worked out OK.

AS. You went out to South Africa a little early, I believe. 

AD. Yeah. It was our half term in college the week before. So I thought I might as well take full advantage by going out during half term. Then I also had a week of term time. So I did a bit of travelling. I went to Ethiopia and Cape Town first to do a bit of travelling as well.

AS. And temperature-wise, did you find South Africa warmer than Europe at this time of year?

AD. Actually, Cape Town’s about the same as here now. It was wet, cold, and a bit windy. Once I got to Durban it was lovely. 

AS. Do you run OK in the heat? Did the heat affect you at all? 

AD. No, no, it was fine. I didn’t even think about the weather. It was a little bit windy in the race, 

AS. So the 50k at Perth in March, was the longest run you’d run this year, building up to Comrades. Nothing longer than that?

 AD. That’s right. I did a 69 km trail race in Croatia last year. That was hilly but in terms of time on your feet, it was what I would be expecting for Comrades. I ran around five and a half hours.  I also ran the OCC at UTMB last year which was a very hilly 56km, in a similar time again. So I know that I can last that long on my legs.

The Comrades Race 

AS. Just talk us through, because so much is read about Comrade. It is one of the traditional ultra-road races, the biggest one on the planet.

 You hear about it and see videos at the start. Just talk us through what it felt like on the start line early that morning.

AD. Well, I probably got a different bird’s eye view from a lot of people, 

Because I was with the elite group, we were in the front so I didn’t get to see any of that.

I’ve seen some videos since, and incredible scenes were going on behind. Because I was with the elite group, we were in the front, I didn’t get to see any of that. But yeah, I’m just watching videos now. It’s like, oh my god, is that what was happening behind me?

Then the songs that came on, I can’t remember one of them, so that was, goose-bump time and when the cockerel made the noise as well, but I was unaware of the cockerel sounds and then the gun goes straight away. I wasn’t aware of that as I was still looking around taking everything in, and the gun went and everyone went off leaving me behind a bit.

AS. I was watching slightly from a distance. You started fairly conservatively, as Alex did as well.

(Note: Alex is Alex Milne, who finished in 9th place this year) 

Just talk us through your race, just how you came through because, at one point, you were down in 20th or 30th. Tell us how you paced the race yourself, and how you were passing many people in the second half.

AD. Actually, I was further back than that.

At the start, a few people went off very quickly,  so I didn’t worry or care about them. I was just looking around to see where Alex was. I knew we’d be running at a similar pace, and I knew Alex had run Comrades and 100k’s before, so I didn’t want to follow him but be in the same group as him, so I could see him and everything. The lead group were only just in front of us at half-way, so I wasn’t too concerned.

I think at halfway they’re just a minute in front, so that’s nothing over that distance, so I wasn’t too concerned. The first two hours went so quickly, I’m like, oh my God, it’s two hours on the clock already, that’s great news. In the second half, I didn’t realize that they’d all sped up. I think Piet ( Comrades winner Piet Wiersma )would put his foot down sometimes,  just to change things around, but I was still going, I suppose, at a fairly conservative pace. I noticed a lot of the Africans weren’t so good on the uphills. I don’t know if it was because they weren’t so good or because I’ve also done mountain running, that I was quite strong, but I seemed to be passing them quite nicely.

 So it was just a matter of picking them off and seeing another one ahead and thinking, they’re not far away, another half a mile, I could take that one. I genuinely didn’t know where I was in the race. 

I was asking people, “Where am I?, What position am I?” And someone did eventually say about 14th, I think. So I was looking ahead saying, “Yeah I think that’s now 11th, now 10th.”

 All I wanted was a top 10 place at that point. I was trying to work out where 10th was. I didn’t even know I was in fifth until a few miles to go. When I got into fifth, I couldn’t see anyone in front or behind for a long way.

So I knew I only had to cruise home for the last five or six miles.

AS. When you get close to the finish, running into Pietermaritzburg, are there big crowds lining the streets like you get in a big city marathon?

AD. Yes. They were great. It’s good when you have your name across the front, and they’re all shouting. It was also nice because it was all downhill to the finish. So you could just cruise down. The crowds are all there out in force. It was a good atmosphere.

AS.  Traditionally, the race can be dominated by Africans. Piet, who won, is Dutch, and with yourself, Elav Olsen, the Swede, in 7th, and Alex Milne in 9th, that’s four Europeans in the top 10. That’s a pretty good ratio.

AD. One of the Russian lads was 11th too. He was the one who went out at the beginning on his own out the front. Evenwhen Alex and I were running about halfway, all we could see was a big group of Africans in front and I thought, how the hell are we supposed to get in the top 10 here? But we managed to pick them off and we both came through strongly in the end. 

AS. Just talk us through the finish of actually realising I have finished in the top six at Comrades, and I’ve also run further than I’ve ever run in my life before. 

AD. That was a nice feeling because my legs were tired by then. So I was waiting for quite a long time to get to that stadium. So when I was finally there, it was such a big relief. There was no one in front. There was no one behind, so I could just cruise down.

They give you a rose to carry to the finish as well, I don’t know what that was about but it was nice.

Historical Note on the rose: “For more than two decades, Interflora has provided flowers to the Comrades.

As they cross the finish line of South Africa’s most iconic ultra marathon, the top ten male and female Comrades finishers receive an Interflora Red Rose to carry with pride into the stadium.

Following them, the next 2,000 triumphant runners are greeted with yellow roses as they complete the race.”

What’s next for Andy?

AS. So you were recovering OK by the sound of it?

AD. Yeah, all good. Yeah, I think there’s a little slight twitch in my piriformis, but it’s gone away today. So hopefully, we’re all good.

AS. What’s next for Andy?

AD. I’ll tell you that I don’t have a clue. I’m tempted by the Jungfrau Marathon again. It’s the first week of September.

 But also, I’m 45 in October, so I’d like to have a little go at the British Veteran 45 marathon record.

I think I need to plan a fast marathon in maybe the autumn or next spring. Yeah, so that’s on the radar at the moment. 

NOTE. Andy finished second in 2018 in the Jungfrau Marathon, one of Europe’s classic mountain races.  He also broke the British Vet 40 marathon record when he ran 2:14:20 in Seville in February 2022. This mark was lowered by Mo Farah, who ran 2:10:28, aged 40 in London, aged 40, in 2023.

AS. Does 100k interest you at all? 

AD.Not really, if I have to be honest. I chatted about this with Alex Milne. I was telling Alex that if it was over the mountains, then possibly, but it’s a long way going around in a small circuit.

AS. Going for the Vet 45 marathon record sounds like a good deal to me for this year.

 AD.Yeah. It’s quite a challenge. It’s 2.17. I think. I forget his name. He ran it in the selection race for the Tokyo Olympics held in Kew Gardens. 

NOTE: The current GB V45 record is 2:17:26 by Ian Leitch of Brighton Phoenix

 I ran that trial too, and I was in the group with him. If he had run more sensibly, he could have run a better time, I think.

We had our own pacer in our group. There were quite a few turns on the course, and he kept sprinting in front of the pacer before the turn.  I’m like, just chilling out at the back because it was quite windy. Well, it was really windy that day. So I think he could have done a lot quicker, you know, perhaps a minute or so. He still ran a good time for me to aim for.  I am still interested in marathons. I would like to do another quick one, you know, and try to get that record.

 I like to do one or two a year, trying to get quick times, but that doesn’t seem as important right now. I know how hard they are and how much they hurt. I don’t want to go through that too often.

AS. It’s been great talking to you as despite all your many, many achievements, you are one of these runners that flies a little bit under the radar.

 AD. I suppose I am. I’m like a lone wolf, and don’t join into the norm or do too much social media.

AS. You just get on with things,  And your life is probably better for it, just letting your feet do the talking.

 AD. Thanks very much.

 AS. OK, Andy, take care. We will catch up again soon. 

PLEASE SHARE!

Thanks for reading . If you have enjoyed this post, do see our other ones HERE

If you have a comment, please feel free to add it below.

If you are inspired by this or think someone else you know will be, please do what you have to do by sharing. You all know how these things work by now:-) You can also follow me on Twitter and Instagram @tarittweets

Sign up to receive our newsletter alerting you to new posts 

Adrian Tarit Stott.

The author is a former GB 24 hour ultra international with over 100 ultra race completions.  He has also been involved organising ultra distance races for over 30 years.  Still an active recreational runner, he is currently a member of UKA’s Ultra Running Advisory Group (URAG) and part of the selection and team management for both Scottish and GB ultra teams.He is also a freelance writer in his spare time, contributing articles and reports to several websites and magazines including Athletics Weekly and Irunfar.