A chat with Kim Collison.
I was lucky to have time to chat with 2025 Spine Race winner Kim Collison. Since the race 3 weeks ago, he has been rather busy with several media requests!! A quick search will show his race has been well documented, not least on his own INSTAGRAM feed. So although the Spine did come into the conversation, we tried to talk about other things, notably Kims’ pure love of running and attitude to “perceived failure”. The global trail scene and whether Barkley or a Back Yard Ultra might figure in the future plans?
Brief thoughts on how the stars aligned at The Spine this year
AS. I can’t imagine how many people have been talking to you about the Spine race.
So I won’t labour too much on that but just to get it done with before we go on to chat about other things.
I have five little topics I’m going to talk about, the first of which is the Spine Race. Your race experiences have been well documented in several places. When I messaged you after the race to say well done, you sent a very short reply saying, “Finally cracked the code!” Leaving aside all the obvious traditional resilience and bravado to make it fourth time lucky, several things need to align to make a race happen. Is there one particular element thing this year, above all else, that led to you getting to the finish line?
I think if I mention fitness, ground conditions, weather, the competitive nature of mixing it with top guys like John Kelly, and Damian in the past, and just your mindset of “Wanting it” Is there one element above all else this year that made the star align?
KIM.I remember beforehand doing a little diagram with CONFIDENCE in the middle and then doing all the reasons why I should be confident going into this. So I was standing on that start line with huge self-belief that I could succeed, I think that above all else was a key factor this year. I had the mindset of,” I can do this. I know how to do it. I’ve ticked the boxes. Let’s give it a crack. It’s, that real self-belief and motivation linked to that desire.
You can phrase that as I probably wanted it more than anyone else
This year, several runners in that field had similar capabilities. I think that was a clear thing for me, I think.
This was my fourth time lucky.
AS. Has the spine become a bit of an obsession with you? Or has it just been one of those niggling little unfinished business items and you’ve just got to tick the box.
KIM. It was a growing obsession. After the first year’s failure, every year it grew and grew into the thing I was thinking about for the whole of the next year.
AS. A bit tangential, but how was Ally about all this? ( Ally is Kim’s wife) Was there a breakfast time when you weren’t discussing the Spine or anything like that?
KIM. We tried to avoid discussing it. Then there is a certain point in the year that it becomes inevitable that I’m the most difficult person to live with. It’s usually around Christmas time.
AS. Is that it now?
KIM. Yeah, I definitely have no thought of “I’ve got to turn up next year and be there on the start line because it’s unfinished business. I’m totally happy with the performance I put out there being the best I could do that week.
AS. Might you go back in the future like I think Eoin did? ( Multiple winner Eoin Keith) He obviously excelled in some of the early editions, but he kept coming back just to enjoy it with no pressure?
KIM. No. That doesn’t fit my psychology, unfortunately. If I’m on the start line, I’m there to race, and with that goes all the preparation and pressure to build up to that. So might I be on the start line? Yeah, I can’t rule that out. There’s always that “What if from last year” when I was leading the race ahead of Jack before injury struck.
There’s always that nagging feeling of what could have been and the time I might have run in those conditions. But a Winter Spine is so conditions dependent. Jack’s record time last year was fantastic, but having run on the course last year and having felt how fast the conditions were compared to this year, I wonder if I could have matched Jack’s time but for the injury. I mean, it’s like chalk and cheese what the ground conditions were last year compared to this year, but that’s the way it is.
AS.Yeah. It’s very strange.
KIM. And the energy costs. I mean, I’m more than delighted to have run the time I did this year in the 2025 conditions, as only Jack and Damian have run faster on the full course in 2024. At the moment, yeah, no real urge to go back.
Dealing with percieved failure.
AS.Right. That’s the Spine done!
You’ve had much success in many events going back from your adventure racing days, through placing high in British Fell Running Championships, before you even got into ultras and multi-day running. I think I read somewhere that you talked about allowing a DNF to be comfortable at times. Do you ever feel like you’ve failed on anything, or was it just a necessary part of the journey that we have to have these experiences as part of the journey?
KIM. Yes. I think there’s an element of, “If I’m not risking failure, then I am not challenging myself enough.”
With any adventure, the outcome is uncertain. To truly do that,
you really have to experience failure learn from it, and grow. So the mindset and the trick is, I think, finding the partial successes in an overall failure.
So, for me and the Spine, I very quickly saw last year as 90% successful. So much went right for me to be in the position I was in that race. And the reality is, OK, what was left to solve? And it’s then taking what was successful to learn from and say, “OK, keep doing that.” Then having that analytical mind to go, “Right. What could be the potential? How do I improve it? I think you’re always having that ability to construct something into a positive.
I remember my first ever lesson of rejection and failure would have been sitting in the changing room after PE class in my secondary school with a load of footballers, and the second PE teacher coming along and picking all the football players for the cross country team to run at the county champs. And you know you are better than half of those footballers that he selected. But because, you know, I had two left feet on the football field and because I didn’t make a football team, it was an automatic presumption that I wasn’t good at running.
But the mentality was, right, how do I prove this? I know I’m good and better than most of them at running, and use that as drive and motivation to push you on. Then, next year winning each of the school cross countries in my year group, just to go, “Right. There’s a point.”
But it wasn’t so much that, it was more that that lesson was learned in using that fire and not taking it the other way and never running again. You can take that lesson two ways. Just taking it in that way has always sat with me.
The thin line between Bravado and sensible decision making.
AS. Related, but slightly different. We’ve talked before about there being a very thin dividing line between bravado, toughing something out, and sensible decision-making. I remember chatting to you after you did, I think, one of your Lakeland winter epics. A blizzard blew up, and you finally convinced yourself it wasn’t a good idea to continue. Where do you find that fine line between talking yourself out of carrying on with the challenge you set yourself, but also thinking, this isn’t going to work? I’m putting myself in danger here with these conditions, or I’m going to be out for six months if I do carry on with my knee in the state it’s in etc.
KIM. I guess it’s from a viewpoint that, you know it’s all linked to accepting that failure is OK. You may have lost a battle, but it’s far better to live to fight another day. So it’s that line of having that critical assessment in the moment, trying to separate yourself from emotion, from stereotype, from bravado and think actually the real toughness is sometimes around making that decision to DNF, to retreat, to take stock and go right, I know if it’s an injury, “Do I want to be sitting on the sofa for six weeks, not running?” No. I love running too much. And thinking actually, there’s always another opportunity. I think it’s just getting over that macho-ism that often persuades you that you must succeed at all costs, which isn’t necessarily true. It’s trying to know the difference between what’s actually the right choice for you at the right time. Sometimes you do have to go through low points and dark points and sometimes it’s just a case of developing the mental resilience to get through those dark places to reach your finishes. It’s nothing to do with a long-term injury or a sickness but it all relates to what your end goal is as well.
Comparing the Mindset of Races, with Rounds.
AS. You’ve had success in competitive events like Lateland 50 and The Spine, Swiss Peaks, etc. You’ve also had success on more individual challenges, like the Paddy Buckley and other big rounds. The Lakeland 24-hour round and the Scottish Munro round. Is the mindset different when you’re doing a solo challenge to having someone like John Kelly, Damo, or Jack Scott, clipping at your ankles or breathing down your neck?
Is there a different mindset there?
KIM. There’s a definite factor that there is much more of a tactical, strategic element when you’re in a race of this length. You make different choices compared to when you’re doing one of the big rounds where it’s just you, against you and the clock and the previous history. So, you know in a round, it comes down to your best performance. Sometimes, in a race, there are strategic choices to be made to be really competitive because it draws you to get the best out of yourself.
My example of that would be the Lakeland 100 last year. There were three of us drawing each other along to three cracking times in a historical context. Although I finished third behind Mark and Gavin, I know that I got the best out of myself on that particular day because I was in that competition, in that cauldron. I was totally fine in coming third because I knew I had given my best. It was the element of having the competition to do that. So, there is a totally different element to it, and there’s the excitement side of competition too. It’s a kind of primal element that’s different to running a solo round.
NOTE. Kim finished third at the 2024 Lakeland 100, behind Mark Darbyshire and Gavin Dale. Mark beat his own course record from 2021 as did Gavin in 2nd place. Kim recorded the 4th fastest time on the course.
AS. I often quote Conan-Doyle’s, Sherlock Holmes on ocasions like that. It’s almost like. “The thrill of the chase.”
KIM.Yes. That’s so true. There is that thrill of the chase.
Can competive instincts interwine with a pure love of running ?
AS. Backtracking a little. When did you start realising you might be good at running and started setting yourself either little or big goals?
I guess I’m talking about more, post your adventure racing period when you started getting more into fell and ultra running.
Yes. I guess I discovered I enjoyed running and was relatively good at it at school, to be able to win at my school level. I never was international level or even good county level at that point. So I guess post settling in the Lake District, there was definitely a fell season where I jumped to making top 10s in English Championship races, where I realised that I was good at fell running.
AS.So, intertwined with this question is that you just love going up on the fells and just being out there. All of us have that competitive instinct, but we also all have this love of just being out in wide open spaces and the feeling of running for its own sake.
KIM Yes. It’s the key essential for me. Enjoying the mountains and fells in all weathers.
AS. Do you ever feel our competitive instinct and individual ambition can be reconciled with pure enjoyment?
It’s true that, in some ways, our running defines us, but do the competitive and the contemplative aspects of running intertwine as part of the process?
Kim. Interesting question. I love the daily routine of getting out and going for a run, and the good runs and the bad runs all end up being positive experiences for the mind. For me, that element of the journey is very much intertwined, moving in nature with my running and racing. My choices of races have always been about as much the environment you will be in as well as the race and the challenge. You won’t see me at a 24-hour track race or a road 100k, and I have never even run a road marathon as a race. The element of the environment adds to my enjoyment, so there is a powerful, strong motivation for everything.
The current Global trail and Mountain scene.
AS. Going slightly tangential. The off-road scene at the moment, both nationally and internationally, can be seen as being somewhat fragmented in many ways. You have the World Mountain Running Association(WMRA) doing a pretty good job promoting mountain championships. Then, on the wider trail and mountain scene, you have the Golden Trail Series, World Trail Majors, Skyrunning, and the UTMB series etc. all promoting their own championships. While it undoubtedly is helping a handful of athletes trying to make a living and raise their profile, do you think these separate strands are actually helping or hindering the global development of trail running as a sport?
Kim. There are a lot of positives, and standards are rising generally, but you’re always left with that feeling that the top people aren’t able, for whatever reason, to race each other enough. It’s tough making a living as a full-time athlete. The dilemma is that the events are so long, and the cost of doing them is a lot higher on the body to peak for them and get the best out of yourself.
It makes it a challenge. It’s not like a 10k or a half marathon, where you can turn up pretty regularly and compete quite often.
You’ve only got so many good races in you each year, so as an elite, you’ve got to prioritize. I guess it is starting to prioritize some big races in your area of interest. You do have a choice, where you know there are a few big races that draw in the competitive fields and offer prize money. I think that is getting more and more the case each year.
AS. You then have World Athletics with ITRA and WMRA trying to promote a federation led bi-annual World or Continental Mountain and Trail Championship in an already crowded calendar.
Do you think the problem is coordination?
KIM. Yes! I think making a set window is part of the criteria for me because we know where UTMB is. It is a beast. It is what it is, but it is attracting a lot of the best athletes. It likes to be seen as “The other world championship for trail running.”
In terms of numbers, participation, and athletes wanting to do it, it has become a major event.
So, for me, some kind of fixture coordination would be the best solution to help grow the sport productively.
I would love to see higher-ranking events and championships coordinate better with the UTMB final, which is always the same weekend each year. It would benefit the athletes and the events if you had a European or World Championship, say in May or early June each year.
Running a hard 50k or 80K early in the Spring falls into many people’s “double peak” for the year of then being able to do a 100K at CCC or a 100 miler at UTMB. So it actually works with, rather than against the beast. I would rather that was the way forward.
You know, the trajectory is that trail and mountain running is moving potentially towards an Olympic sport. It has that growth and excitement, and the coverage is improving dramatically, making the top events more accessible to a wider audience.
AS. On a slightly separate thread, most people can relate to what someone’s half or marathon time is, or possibly their 100k time, whereas not everyone can relate to what their UTMB time or Lakeland 50/100 time is?
For a classic road distance, the stopwatch doesn’t lie in some ways. You can relate to someone’s marathon time or their 100k time, whereas not everyone can relate to what someone’s UTMB time is or what their Lakeland 50/100 time is.
Organisations like ITRA and UTMB have come up with these wonderful points and ranking systems to offer a global order of sorts on the trails. Can it ever be a perfect ranking system?
KIM. It has definitely improved, and it is now a pretty reasonable algorithm that’s improving all the time. In reality, it does tell you your ranking within an event. You know it’s not that far off. It’s similar to some degree in comparing someone’s V02 MAX.
You can say OK. They were on this floor of the department building. So anyone on the same floor or in a similar “ranking range” is competing with each other. For example, if you go, “Oh, this is a 900-point person”, they might be competing well with an 860-point person in that similar race, but they’re not going to be competing with a 700-point person. You start to get aspects of where they are on the tree.
So in reality, it does give a reasonable take on things. In some ways it’s almost better than a road ranking, because it takes an average of performances rather than necessarily a one-off PB.
It’s a moving, rolling beast, depending on your last two years, current form. Then, it’s a case of looking at where do you specialize? Is it the half marathon or 25 km trail and mountain races? Is it the 100km or 100-mile range? Or even the 200-mile races?
Then you can start to identify within your niche a little bit more of expertise. So as a tool, yes, these things are never perfect. It’s a model that is constantly improving and gives you a good thing to help assess competitive athletes, I would say.
Additionally, what would be nice would be one governing body and only one that did the score, and it wasn’t UTMB or ITRA coming in with very similar ones. It would be good to be able to refer to one place rather than going back and forth between two. That seems absolutely crazy in my mind. It’s an evolving situation, and I don’t think anyone saw the exceptional rise and explosion of numbers in trail and mountain running even five years ago, let alone 10 years ago.
What could the future hold for Kim?
AS. Last question. What’s next?
You have, after all, set the bar pretty high over the last few years, My own lifelong mentor, Sri Chinmoy, has a saying. “Today’s goal is only just tomorrow’s starting point.” Would you go along with that.
KIM. That’s a good expression. Indeed.
AS. Is there an event that you haven’t done yet, that you’d like to experience? Is there an ultimate challenge you still have in your back pocket that you would like to see become a reality?
KIM. That’s a good question I’ve been asked a few times lately.
Today, I received confirmation that I have an entry to Tor des Geants
which for me, ticks the “unfinished business box.”
NOTE: The Tor des Geants is a 330km event with 24000metres of elevation in the Alps. The 2025 race is due to start on September 14th.
I also feel I am learning how to race a multi-day better, and I’m really looking forward to taking it to probably the most competitive 200-mile trail race in Europe, if not across the globe, and aim to race that this September. I will prepare and learn and put all those lessons from all the previous failures and successes into that race. So that excites me, but there’s always the question of, ” What is the next scary goal?” You know, what’s the one goal that is maybe possible, or not possible? That adventure that seems just out of reach?
Apart from Tor de Geants, there has to be another FKT somewhere. Probably the two that tick the “Scary box,” which might be possible but might not be, would be John’s records at either the Pennine Way or Wainwright’s.
NOTE. John Kelly holds the FKTs for both of those challenges, The 268 Mile Pennine Way in 2 days, 10 hours, 4 minutes and 53 seconds on 21st May 2021. The route is the Spine race run as a challenge, outwith the race environment. The Wainwrights are the 214 Lakeland peaks chronicled by Alfred Wainright. Kelly covered the approximate 320-mile (515km) circuit, which involves a total ascent of 36,000m (118,000ft). In five days, 12 hours and 14 minutes in May 2022.
Those are the two that will be slowly growing in the back of my mind, should I say. The seed is being fertilized.
AS. Do events like Backyard Ultras or the Barkley Marathon interest you at all? Or is that just a bit circus-like compared to “pure racing”?
Backyard Ultra’s don’t really excite me, because ultimately, it doesn’t really tick my adventure box or my journey box.
It’s too artificial in its construct for me. I understand how it can really challenge someone and how the concept will intrigue others, but it doesn’t pique my interest. Barkley, I don’t think I want to start embarking on that because I know what that means. It will mean flying to Tennessee year after year, as others have until I crack that code!
Again, I get that it’s an incredible challenge to be targeted, but it could become another obsession. ( laughs)
The loop factor doesn’t fit into my values box just now. So I’m trying to keep it firmly tucked away. It doesn’t need to come out, so it can stay there.
AS. I think it sounds like you’ve got other things that you get much more enjoyment out of doing.
KIM.Yes
AS. Alluding to what we were talking about, you’re not the sort of guy who’s just doing it to get a selfie at the top of the mountain. You’ve got much more of an “inner thing” going on with your running accomplishments.
KIM. Definitely.
AS.Well, Kim. That’s great. Our 30 minutes have come and gone. I hope I asked you something different that you haven’t been asked too much in the last few weeks.
Kim. Yes, It’s good to explore other ideas or different topics.
Final overview. The growing rise of 200-mile specialists!
It was interesting to hear Kim talk about specialising at a certain distance. Be that 25k or 100 miles. In his case, he seems to have joined the growing band of 200-mile specialists! With a growing number of 200-mile plus events around the world and the recent news that Courtney Dauwalter will run her first 200-mile race in 2025, that interest, like 100 miles before them, is only going to grow.
For more information on Kim and his coaching see https://kimcollison.co.uk
If you don’t already, follow Kim on Instagram HERE
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Adrian Tarit Stott.
The author is a former GB 24-hour ultra international with over 100 ultra race completions. He has also been involved in organising ultra-distance races for over 30 years. Still an active recreational runner, he is currently a member of UKA’s Ultra Running Advisory Group (URAG) and the Mountain and Trail Advisory Group. He also contributes as part of the selection and team management for both Scottish and GB ultra teams. A freelance writer in his spare time, he contributes articles and reports to several websites and magazines including Athletics Weekly and Irunfar.
